What type of fuel is everyone using in their 2 strokes?
Posted 05 January 2011 - 02:22 PM
Posted 05 January 2011 - 03:36 PM
Even if you tuned a E85 vehicle perfectly it is going to get 30-40% less fuel mileage..
Ethanol has better octane but it takes almost twice as much to produce the same power or a bit more power..
Typical E85 Ford Edge.. 32 mpg on E10 and 25mpg on E85.. I have one in my shop now..info from the customer.. She pays $3.10 for E10 and $2.53 for E85.. Very close to the same cost, I agree the E85 is better for motherearth on the emissions point but how much bad stuff used in growing the corn.. plus the Fertilizer and equipment for the cracking process, that consumes loads of Petroleum in one form or another..
Is there a TRUE saving or a wash or do we loose a bit..?.
Or government and media..land of smoke and mirrors..
sorry for the diversion.. heated lunchtime debate...
Posted 05 January 2011 - 08:05 PM
And I'm probably going to jinx myself now..but so far, so good on my seals....
I run a Honda Cr250r....and since day one she's been on a diet of:
- Sunoco 93 fuel (as much as possible, about 90%-95% of the time)-which is presently at 10 ethenol...soon to go up..
- Bel-Ray H1R mixed at 40:1 in the gas, and
- Bel-Ray's 80w gearcase oil...
- I've read through the posts, and saw there's some discussion about bikes that sit around versus getting ridden more often..
2010 : 21 days ridden 86 hours
2009: 29 days ridden 117 hours
2008: 24 days ridden 101 hours
Total 74 days ridden 304 hours
This post has been edited by Chris Giordano: 05 January 2011 - 08:54 PM
Posted 06 January 2011 - 08:35 AM
I also think there is most definitely a shelf life to the 2-stroke oils.
It's not the oil, it's the gas, specifically, the more volatile components plus the now the ethanol, which can bind with water, just like in our beer, whiskey and oh so many other wonderful drinks.
Posted 06 January 2011 - 10:20 AM
Also, the one thing I've noticed when the seals are bad is that it isn't as much of an issue when riding in the rocks since the RPM's are lot lower. The bikes seem to consume a lot less trans oil, if barely any, when the RPM's are lower (off the main). At a sand run if the seal goes bad, they'll burn through almost a whole quart of trans juice before 70 miles! (That's why I always stash a Qt. of trans juice in my pit bag, just in-case.) If the trans oil burning doesn't make the bike "blubber" (it usually doesn't, surprisingly, it just feels a lil' fat), I would probably never know the seal was bad when riding outside of South Jersey, but since 97% of our trail riding (and half the races) are here, it's a big issue.
Mike, with pre-mix gas, just like Frank said, usually the gas will go bad before the oil loses it's ability to lubricate. Current E-10 pump fuel is only stable for about 2-3 weeks before it goes bad or phase separation (ethanol losing it's ability to stay mixed in the petro). Also, especially dependent upon how it's stored, the E-10 because of the ethanol content will lose it's octane rating (anti-ping/knock factor) as it absorbs water.
For pre-mix oils, most conventional, blended and synth oils will stay mixed in fuel (though I always shake a can a little before I pour) except bean oils. Straight Castor bean oils are fantastic because of their super high flashpoint, but do not stay mixed in colder temps and MUST be used within two days of being mixed before the oil loses it's ability to properly lubricate (petro breaks the bean oil down quickly). We've tried multiple varieties of pre-mix oils over the years. Because of the seal issues, I've done a lot of homework on pre-mix oils flashpoints, synth versus conventional versus blended versus bean, before settling on a blended mix (Maxima "Super M") for our pre-mix ratio (32.1) and riding conditions. If we don't use up a batch of fuel before 3 weeks, I won't put it in the bikes.
Posted 17 April 2011 - 10:48 AM
I have been reading Through your post about the fuels and additives And in my opinion This may not be a fuel issue this may be a clutch, trans heat issue
making the crank hold heat more than it should be . I have been an auto tech for a long time and the last 3 years My son C.J. has been running a KTM 50 PRO SR .
He was having seal hardining and trans oil burn .The 50cc uses a wet centrifical clutch so the trans oil gets real hot, at first I thought it might just be the way he rides the bike
ie:on and off the throttle bliping the bike .So Without him knowing I tightened up the clutch pack so he would have to go wide open throtle to go anywhere
the bike still had allot of heat issues . This may sound like a commershal but it isnt I tried this additive in his trans oil "too cool" link added http://www.two2cool....uct_p/06035.htm
I started using this additive in his trans and it stopet hardining his seal to the combustion chamber .We have been running this oil additive for the last 2 years without any problems.
The reason I am saying this is I dont think that your problem is your fuel .If it was your fuel wouldnt every one be complaining about this ?
Why dont you go out and get an infrared thermometer and run your bike like you race it and check your trans oil temp .
drain and get new oil, add additive and see if this lowers your temp then use it for a year and see if this doesnt fix your seal problem.
I dont think its fuel related
just a thought !
it worked for me on the 50
You both could be clutching too much creating too much heat .did you teach her to ride ? do you both clutch the same way ?
Oh btw we use VP u4.4 and belray 2 stroke synthetic lube last year and a half -before the belray and u4.4 we used sunoco race fuel and bg 2 stroke additive for 2 years
I have found that with the belray I dont foul plugs. bel
This post has been edited by C.J. Ashe: 17 April 2011 - 01:51 PM
Posted 18 April 2011 - 10:32 PM
Posted 20 April 2011 - 07:50 AM
Ive noticed that Lissa' bike started smoking and using up trans oil towards the end of the summer. Mine made it to Stump Jumper when I noticed excessive oil consumption. We started to think it was our riding style, excessive clutching getting the bottom end too hot. Ive never had this problem before on any of my Yamahas and Hondas and also older Kawasakis.
Earlier today I stumbled across a thread on another site about crank seal failure on vintage bikes due to the ethanol that is now present in all pump fuels around my area. They are having issues with seal failures, fiber glass tanks falling apart etc. The fix is a switch to Viton seals. I have heard of cars having multiple issues with their fuel systems due to the ethanol also. I checked my manual and it says not to use any fuel with 10% ethanol. I believe the gas stations are up to 15% now. So what type of fuels are you using and have you had any issues? Im hoping that I dont have to switch to straight race gas!
Very interesting, for the first time ever on all of my yamaha's( or any bike) I had to replace a crank seal on my practice bike two weeks ago. The bike is last years enduro bike so it has some time on it, but I have NEVER had to replace one in the past. It was on the ignition side, but seemed very hard. I always use Cam 2 purple (110 leaded) and super 92/93- 50/50 as well. I always buy all of my fuel (pump gas) in Feb when it is the cheapest. Last year I bought WaWA super to mix and noticed that it did not seem as fresh. I normally buy Amoco/BP. Its the only fuel you can burn in your coleman grill, lol. I think that you are on to something with the ethanol crap. There is a slight chance that since they have not made the Kawi in a few years now (?) that all the seals are a bit old sitting on the shelf to begin with? You probably have the fix already with the different seals... Good luck!
On a side note. Over the past 25 years, I have spent many hours testing on dyno's, racing, and real world driving with numerous race fuels (Cam 2, VP, Unical, Power mist, torco, and av fuel). Used it in drag cars, bikes, and boats. The main reason I use the Cam 2 is for the lead, as most of you know is lubricates and keeps things running cooler, it is not giving your average bike any more power. It will also prevent the detonation with todays junk fuel. Most of the leaded race fuels are a good thing for this, but the burn rate, and specific gravity is a bit different, geared for High compression. Unless you are running over 12:1 nominal compression and/or are willing to rejet you will not see power improvements. The Av fuel is a improvement over todays pump gas because it has some lead and 96/97 Octane. It was much better before they went to the Low Lead formulas a few years back... price last year was running at $4.84 gal at my local airport. Not a bad price considering todays super price.
Posted 05 May 2011 - 10:44 PM
I have also used avgas for over 15 years with no problems, but only in 2-smokes. I agree that its not made for our application and not sure what it does to those valve / cam thingies, but in a 2-stroke it burns clean. Power valve, piston crown and head all look like new, never a jetting or pinging problem and excellent engine life with Maxima Super-M at 40:1. Recently Ive been running pump junk with fatter jetting or less advance with ok performance. You get some spooge but hey, times are tough and Im cheap. Good luck, splitting cases for a $5 part sux……….
Posted 28 April 2012 - 01:34 AM