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2012 Ktm xc250 2 stroke updates from testing

#1 User is offline   JIM AIELLO 

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 08:46 PM

So far what worked on the 2011 works well on the 2012.

Gearing- 13/48 or 14/51. do not move the front wheel too close to the mud flap. Add a chain link before moving the wheel foward. Too twitchy in handling. Riding south Jersey points taking trails I tried a few different ratios. Keeping the bike in one gear without shifting and just feathering the clutch is the litmus test for this. 13/50 too much shifting without utilizing the power. 14/50 too much clutch. Try it Mikey, you'll like it just like Life cereal.

Jetting-NOZH needle, 38-40pj(cold weather), Marshall 6.0 slide (richer) $60

Handling-20mm triple clamps forks at first line. Now you can turn that sucker in tight stuff. Going past second line will make a bad turning bike 'knife' trying to achieve a bite in turns. I would like to try ride-engeineering.com 20.5 clamps but at $475 I'm waiting to hear back from rider support. Fyi, reducing trail in offset might require stiffer springs since you are putting more weight up front. No wonder there's so many stock 22mm stock triples on sale via Ebay.

Linkage-I have a 5.8 spring on mine at a 220lb riding weight. 180lb riders might find stock spring too light.

I put on a sx250 head. Better low end punch/response but at $200 it's not that big of a difference. I installed a radiator fan. Yes I overheated my 2011 every race and reqiured fluid after event. The fan rarely goes on but does in tight points taker. I took off the started and gear it's connected to. Plug the hole with a bolt and silicone. Since I like the fan I might buy one of those light Ballisticparts.com batteries.

Motocross action did a test on the 2012 xc300. Read the article. Very informitive. M Action mag is the best on technical advice. Note that the stock gearing is a 14/50. Why Ktm ships their 250's & 300's with a 13t counter is a mystery with adverse affects.
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#2 User is offline   Mike Soudas 

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 11:00 PM

Jim

Great info.. You can tweek rear sag to get he 20.5 feel..



PS I have a head with your name on it.. send me the old XC one.. The SX head is flawed like the XC head... SX head just adds compression...it does not help combustion..
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#3 User is offline   skip stoner 

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:20 AM

Jim, I've had trouble in the past with the Marshall slide, double check it, it might be a .5 if so go to Sudco for a true .0
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#4 User is offline   Mike Soudas 

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:20 AM

View Postskip stoner, on 10 January 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Jim, I've had trouble in the past with the Marshall slide, double check it, it might be a .5 if so go to Sudco for a true .0


Agree, been thru that too
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#5 User is offline   JIM AIELLO 

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:38 PM

View PostMike Soudas, on 09 January 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Jim

Great info.. You can tweek rear sag to get he 20.5 feel..



PS I have a head with your name on it.. send me the old XC one.. The SX head is flawed like the XC head... SX head just adds compression...it does not help combustion..

message me the info to send head, Mike. Thx

If I have time I'll take a side by side photo of slides for cut away size. Kerry at T&Country did say it was a 6.5 but package and website said 6.0. Beats stock slide at $180
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#6 User is offline   paul tillberg 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:13 PM

View PostJIM AIELLO, on 09 January 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

So far what worked on the 2011 works well on the 2012.

Gearing- 13/48 or 14/51. do not move the front wheel too close to the mud flap. Add a chain link before moving the wheel foward. Too twitchy in handling. Riding south Jersey points taking trails I tried a few different ratios. Keeping the bike in one gear without shifting and just feathering the clutch is the litmus test for this. 13/50 too much shifting without utilizing the power. 14/50 too much clutch. Try it Mikey, you'll like it just like Life cereal.



Jim
Needed new sprockets so I loaded up the 14/51.
To get the full chain link the 14/51 ratio seems to set the wheel forward (requiring the adjuster plate to be flipped) or pretty far back compared to 13/50. The 13/50 seemed to in the middle. Should it be set reward no matter? Is you axle pretty far back? Also I'm running stock triple clamps.
Paul

This post has been edited by paul tillberg: 25 February 2012 - 04:18 PM

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#7 User is offline   JIM AIELLO 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:21 PM

View Postpaul tillberg, on 25 February 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

View PostJIM AIELLO, on 09 January 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

So far what worked on the 2011 works well on the 2012.

Gearing- 13/48 or 14/51. do not move the front wheel too close to the mud flap. Add a chain link before moving the wheel foward. Too twitchy in handling. Riding south Jersey points taking trails I tried a few different ratios. Keeping the bike in one gear without shifting and just feathering the clutch is the litmus test for this. 13/50 too much shifting without utilizing the power. 14/50 too much clutch. Try it Mikey, you'll like it just like Life cereal.



Jim
Needed new sprockets so I loaded up the 14/51.
To get the full chain link the 14/51 ratio seems to set the wheel forward (requiring the adjuster plate to be flipped) or pretty far back compared to 13/50. The 13/50 seemed to in the middle. Should it be set reward no matter? Is you axle pretty far back?
Paul

For 22mm clamps it's okay to run the rear wheel closer. A shorter wheelbase will turn better and move more weight to the front wheel. On my 2011 I tried to run a 14/51 as opposed to a 14/50. I moved the rear adjuster to the short nub and minimal threads showing. That was so bad turning (knifing) that i did'nt even care about the 51t and went back to the 50t. If you run 20mm clamps run the rear wheel back pretty far. If you run stock 22mm clamps run the long nub with at least a few threads showing.
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#8 User is offline   Bryan Shaffer 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 05:15 PM

View PostJIM AIELLO, on 25 February 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

View Postpaul tillberg, on 25 February 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

View PostJIM AIELLO, on 09 January 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

So far what worked on the 2011 works well on the 2012.

Gearing- 13/48 or 14/51. do not move the front wheel too close to the mud flap. Add a chain link before moving the wheel foward. Too twitchy in handling. Riding south Jersey points taking trails I tried a few different ratios. Keeping the bike in one gear without shifting and just feathering the clutch is the litmus test for this. 13/50 too much shifting without utilizing the power. 14/50 too much clutch. Try it Mikey, you'll like it just like Life cereal.



Jim
Needed new sprockets so I loaded up the 14/51.
To get the full chain link the 14/51 ratio seems to set the wheel forward (requiring the adjuster plate to be flipped) or pretty far back compared to 13/50. The 13/50 seemed to in the middle. Should it be set reward no matter? Is you axle pretty far back?
Paul

For 22mm clamps it's okay to run the rear wheel closer. A shorter wheelbase will turn better and move more weight to the front wheel. On my 2011 I tried to run a 14/51 as opposed to a 14/50. I moved the rear adjuster to the short nub and minimal threads showing. That was so bad turning (knifing) that i did'nt even care about the 51t and went back to the 50t. If you run 20mm clamps run the rear wheel back pretty far. If you run stock 22mm clamps run the long nub with at least a few threads showing.

Did you try moving the forks down in the trees out front and/or adding some sag in the rear before changing back to a 50T to help with the knifing? KTMs can be real skeychy if you don't have the right combination all around...
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#9 User is offline   JIM AIELLO 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 05:28 PM

View PostBryan Shaffer, on 25 February 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

View PostJIM AIELLO, on 25 February 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

View Postpaul tillberg, on 25 February 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

View PostJIM AIELLO, on 09 January 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

So far what worked on the 2011 works well on the 2012.

Gearing- 13/48 or 14/51. do not move the front wheel too close to the mud flap. Add a chain link before moving the wheel foward. Too twitchy in handling. Riding south Jersey points taking trails I tried a few different ratios. Keeping the bike in one gear without shifting and just feathering the clutch is the litmus test for this. 13/50 too much shifting without utilizing the power. 14/50 too much clutch. Try it Mikey, you'll like it just like Life cereal.



Jim
Needed new sprockets so I loaded up the 14/51.
To get the full chain link the 14/51 ratio seems to set the wheel forward (requiring the adjuster plate to be flipped) or pretty far back compared to 13/50. The 13/50 seemed to in the middle. Should it be set reward no matter? Is you axle pretty far back?
Paul

For 22mm clamps it's okay to run the rear wheel closer. A shorter wheelbase will turn better and move more weight to the front wheel. On my 2011 I tried to run a 14/51 as opposed to a 14/50. I moved the rear adjuster to the short nub and minimal threads showing. That was so bad turning (knifing) that i did'nt even care about the 51t and went back to the 50t. If you run 20mm clamps run the rear wheel back pretty far. If you run stock 22mm clamps run the long nub with at least a few threads showing.

Did you try moving the forks down in the trees out front and/or adding some sag in the rear before changing back to a 50T to help with the knifing? KTMs can be real skeychy if you don't have the right combination all around...

that worked up 22mm clamps came along and drove myself nuts trying to compensate in what normally fixed it. 20mm work.
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#10 User is offline   Bryan Shaffer 

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 06:48 PM

View PostJIM AIELLO, on 25 February 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

View PostBryan Shaffer, on 25 February 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

View PostJIM AIELLO, on 25 February 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

View Postpaul tillberg, on 25 February 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

View PostJIM AIELLO, on 09 January 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

So far what worked on the 2011 works well on the 2012.

Gearing- 13/48 or 14/51. do not move the front wheel too close to the mud flap. Add a chain link before moving the wheel foward. Too twitchy in handling. Riding south Jersey points taking trails I tried a few different ratios. Keeping the bike in one gear without shifting and just feathering the clutch is the litmus test for this. 13/50 too much shifting without utilizing the power. 14/50 too much clutch. Try it Mikey, you'll like it just like Life cereal.



Jim
Needed new sprockets so I loaded up the 14/51.
To get the full chain link the 14/51 ratio seems to set the wheel forward (requiring the adjuster plate to be flipped) or pretty far back compared to 13/50. The 13/50 seemed to in the middle. Should it be set reward no matter? Is you axle pretty far back?
Paul

For 22mm clamps it's okay to run the rear wheel closer. A shorter wheelbase will turn better and move more weight to the front wheel. On my 2011 I tried to run a 14/51 as opposed to a 14/50. I moved the rear adjuster to the short nub and minimal threads showing. That was so bad turning (knifing) that i did'nt even care about the 51t and went back to the 50t. If you run 20mm clamps run the rear wheel back pretty far. If you run stock 22mm clamps run the long nub with at least a few threads showing.

Did you try moving the forks down in the trees out front and/or adding some sag in the rear before changing back to a 50T to help with the knifing? KTMs can be real skeychy if you don't have the right combination all around...

that worked up 22mm clamps came along and drove myself nuts trying to compensate in what normally fixed it. 20mm work.


That's cool. I was just curious.
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#11 User is offline   paul tillberg 

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:17 AM

View PostJIM AIELLO, on 25 February 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

View Postpaul tillberg, on 25 February 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

View PostJIM AIELLO, on 09 January 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

So far what worked on the 2011 works well on the 2012.

Gearing- 13/48 or 14/51. do not move the front wheel too close to the mud flap. Add a chain link before moving the wheel foward. Too twitchy in handling. Riding south Jersey points taking trails I tried a few different ratios. Keeping the bike in one gear without shifting and just feathering the clutch is the litmus test for this. 13/50 too much shifting without utilizing the power. 14/50 too much clutch. Try it Mikey, you'll like it just like Life cereal.



Jim
Needed new sprockets so I loaded up the 14/51.
To get the full chain link the 14/51 ratio seems to set the wheel forward (requiring the adjuster plate to be flipped) or pretty far back compared to 13/50. The 13/50 seemed to in the middle. Should it be set reward no matter? Is you axle pretty far back?
Paul

For 22mm clamps it's okay to run the rear wheel closer. A shorter wheelbase will turn better and move more weight to the front wheel. On my 2011 I tried to run a 14/51 as opposed to a 14/50. I moved the rear adjuster to the short nub and minimal threads showing. That was so bad turning (knifing) that i did'nt even care about the 51t and went back to the 50t. If you run 20mm clamps run the rear wheel back pretty far. If you run stock 22mm clamps run the long nub with at least a few threads showing.


As far forward or reward the wheel has to be for the 51T I decided to go with the 14/50 so it could be more centered. With no testing time available before Sunday I'd prefer having the gearing off a touch rather than chasing front end issues all day.
Thanks
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#12 User is offline   JIM AIELLO 

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:39 AM

Especially if you are racing Greenbrier hs this weekend. It's a higher speed event so moving that rear wheel forward to much will cause a runaway shopping cart feel. Coincidentally my first ride with the 20 mm clamps was at GB dual sport November. The rear wheel position was fine with stock 22 mm clamps but very twitchy with 20's. I added a link to the chain after the event and the problem was fixed.
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#13 User is offline   JIM AIELLO 

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:01 AM

Speaking of trying something new on your bike at a race...... Same goes for what you eat. Never try a supliment, food,or race drink. Test that stuff too. Another hard learned lesson. Pack t. p.
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#14 User is offline   Glenn Anderson 

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 06:59 PM

View Postskip stoner, on 10 January 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Jim, I've had trouble in the past with the Marshall slide, double check it, it might be a .5 if so go to Sudco for a true .0


Skip or Mike
Do either of you have one of the "Marshal" slides handy?
Is there the trademark Keihin lopsided K stamp near the slide cut #?
I'm trying to determine if these are genuine Keihin or a knockoff.

For your info all genuine Keihin slides actually measure .6 mm larger than what they are stamped. A 6.0 measures 6.6 MM, 6.5 measures 7.1 MM and a 7.0 measures 7.6 MM. Do NOT confuse this .6 with a half size.
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#15 User is offline   Mike McHale 

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:58 AM

Jersey Devil - enough already... you should be out in the woods cutting trail for Sandy Lane! :D
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